Comments on: When the Seagulls Cry #03 — Funny Face http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:18:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Digdri http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25202 Digdri Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:54:54 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25202 Quite nice summary of the idea of this story... Might as well add another line from the authors promotion text for the games: "I want to find out just how many people can deny the witch until the very end and maintain a 'human culprit theory'." But I'm quite amused how many people in the blogs and forums don't even try reasoning the way Battler did and try to analyse how the magic works etc. Well those people really WILL have fun with the 2nd arc... ;-) I always thought myself: When magic can really kill the people, why setting it up as detective story anyway. :D Besides the 1st arc never shows magic at work til now so its really to early to think this way. ^^ (Well ok the umbrella-lady in the garden the anime added in and more butterflies flying around then in the games make it look more supernatural but nothing really magical til now) BTW I really liked the explanation in EP3 which you mentioned. Was also quite confused after the mess EP2 was leaving behind and started thinking the the author is jumping the shark the scene before but suddenly all make sense. :) Well in Higurashi they also declared him insane after the first arcs so it seems to be part of the experience. :P Quite nice summary of the idea of this story…

Might as well add another line from the authors promotion text for the games:
“I want to find out just how many people can deny the witch until the very end and maintain a ‘human
culprit theory’.”

But I’m quite amused how many people in the blogs and forums don’t even try reasoning the way Battler did and try to analyse how the magic works etc. Well those people really WILL have fun with the 2nd arc… ;-)
I always thought myself: When magic can really kill the people, why setting it up as detective story anyway. :D

Besides the 1st arc never shows magic at work til now so its really to early to think this way. ^^
(Well ok the umbrella-lady in the garden the anime added in and more butterflies flying around then in the games make it look more supernatural but nothing really magical til now)

BTW I really liked the explanation in EP3 which you mentioned. Was also quite confused after the mess EP2 was leaving behind and started thinking the the author is jumping the shark the scene before but suddenly all make sense. :)
Well in Higurashi they also declared him insane after the first arcs so it seems to be part of the experience. :P

]]> By: MADAO http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25201 MADAO Sun, 19 Jul 2009 22:49:16 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25201 Okay, its clear now, thanks for the explanation, man. Just when I was about to drop this serie too... Guess I gotta stick with for a while then. Okay, its clear now, thanks for the explanation, man. Just when I was about to drop this serie too… Guess I gotta stick with for a while then.

]]> By: shugosha http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25197 shugosha Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:31:17 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25197 @MADAO ... Umineko is mystery vs. fantasy. The culprit can be a witch, but can be a human as well. Is a symbolic journey of logic vs. superstition. This is not fantasy. This is not mystery. This is anti-mystery vs. anti-fantasy. Umineko is about destroying the illusion of fantasy and uncover the whole truth. Is about if you will surrender to the witch, or stand up and face her. Later is explained why mystery and fantasy coexist each other, but it's a spoiler about EP3. Basically, you're pretty wrong if you believe that all of this is that simple as "a witch did it". @MADAO
… Umineko is mystery vs. fantasy. The culprit can be a witch, but can be a human as well. Is a symbolic journey of logic vs. superstition.

This is not fantasy. This is not mystery. This is anti-mystery vs. anti-fantasy. Umineko is about destroying the illusion of fantasy and uncover the whole truth. Is about if you will surrender to the witch, or stand up and face her.

Later is explained why mystery and fantasy coexist each other, but it’s a spoiler about EP3.

Basically, you’re pretty wrong if you believe that all of this is that simple as “a witch did it”.

]]> By: MADAO http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25196 MADAO Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:20:13 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25196 Nah, what I meant when I said his "turning table" is BS because we, as spectators already knew the culprit is not human, having magical abilities that defy logical thinking, doesnt have a physical form, like the God in Higurashi. Whereas Battler, refusing to believe superstitions, still convinced that the culprit should be human & trying to apply his "turning table" thinking onto something that isnt even human & doesnt think the way a culprit should think. As for a mystery view, he is a good detective but as for a supernatural view, which this show is about, his logical is just BS, see what I mean? Nah, what I meant when I said his “turning table” is BS because we, as spectators already knew the culprit is not human, having magical abilities that defy logical thinking, doesnt have a physical form, like the God in Higurashi. Whereas Battler, refusing to believe superstitions, still convinced that the culprit should be human & trying to apply his “turning table” thinking onto something that isnt even human & doesnt think the way a culprit should think. As for a mystery view, he is a good detective but as for a supernatural view, which this show is about, his logical is just BS, see what I mean?

]]> By: Digdri http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25173 Digdri Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:23:32 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25173 Actually you just have to wait... how good of a method his favorite chessboard-thinking is was discussed later this arc in the games. And shugosha is right. Later on he has his cool moments too. DEEN seems to like making there characteres a little bit edgier, so he don't come of quite right. The way the anime presents it you could really get the idea he wants to sound smart and wants to be some awesome wannabe-detective but in the games its display more fitting: the just have to kill time and start thinking because they might get killed too. Battler even mentions that they as amateurs cannot do a thing but until the police arrives after the storm they have to defend themselfs. And when the parents turn paranoid he just notices their flowed logics and intervenes. Like shugosha says: He's almost the only one who sticks to logical explanations and refuses all the superstition and magic thrown at him which makes him a good choice for the main character. Thats also why the author throws more and more magic stuff at the reader later on ... its not only his game to deny all of this but also YOUS when you try to solve the mysterys :) Actually you just have to wait… how good of a method his favorite chessboard-thinking is was discussed later this arc in the games.

And shugosha is right. Later on he has his cool moments too.
DEEN seems to like making there characteres a little bit edgier, so he don’t come of quite right.
The way the anime presents it you could really get the idea he wants to sound smart and wants to be some awesome wannabe-detective but in the games its display more fitting: the just have to kill time and start thinking because they might get killed too. Battler even mentions that they as amateurs cannot do a thing but until the police arrives after the storm they have to defend themselfs. And when the parents turn paranoid he just notices their flowed logics and intervenes.

Like shugosha says: He’s almost the only one who sticks to logical explanations and refuses all the superstition and magic thrown at him which makes him a good choice for the main character.
Thats also why the author throws more and more magic stuff at the reader later on … its not only his game to deny all of this but also YOUS when you try to solve the mysterys :)

]]> By: Digdri http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25172 Digdri Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:01:43 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25172 Interesting idea but no... those are real murders. You later get confirmation that people died on the island. And I wouldn't call them neat at all... the scenes are toned down a bit in the anime as always but you might want to look at the manga-version (http://www.onemanga.com/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni/7/50-51/) and thing about it again... the novel details how there faces where half or totally smashed... quite unrealistic to fake that wounds. Naturally there alway were discussions where or not someone could fake HIS/HER death... but thats just standard ideas in this closed circle settings. ^^ (... and for the half-smash faces its also really impossible) On the other hand: the comparison of the people to chess-pieces isn't to far of later :) Interesting idea but no… those are real murders. You later get confirmation that people died on the island.

And I wouldn’t call them neat at all… the scenes are toned down a bit in the anime as always but you might want to look at the manga-version (http://www.onemanga.com/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni/7/50-51/) and thing about it again… the novel details how there faces where half or totally smashed… quite unrealistic to fake that wounds.

Naturally there alway were discussions where or not someone could fake HIS/HER death… but thats just standard ideas in this closed circle settings. ^^ (… and for the half-smash faces its also really impossible)

On the other hand: the comparison of the people to chess-pieces isn’t to far of later :)

]]> By: shugosha http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25171 shugosha Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:42:37 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25171 And why you know that the "turning table" is bullshit here? Umineko is mystery vs. fantasy. If you take a mystery view, is clearly obvious that the killer is trying to show that a witch did the killings. So chessboard thinking works here. Cmon, Battler is a good a sympathetic main character, he's the most popular character in Umineko because is the only character who don't fall in the easy solution of "a witch did it", trying to look for answers to all of this. And he will have a good number of good scenes around the story. And why you know that the “turning table” is bullshit here? Umineko is mystery vs. fantasy. If you take a mystery view, is clearly obvious that the killer is trying to show that a witch did the killings. So chessboard thinking works here.

Cmon, Battler is a good a sympathetic main character, he’s the most popular character in Umineko because is the only character who don’t fall in the easy solution of “a witch did it”, trying to look for answers to all of this. And he will have a good number of good scenes around the story.

]]> By: MADAO http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25168 MADAO Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:10:08 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25168 @ Didgri Uh... I think I just found why I thought Battler was ridiculous: Its because I watched him as a viewer knowing that his logic is gonna be bullshit in a mystery show where logic of "turning table" doesnt apply to the killer. That being said, if you look at him as a character inside the show, he was not actually that bad...Well at least better than Kamina I guess. Still cannot appreciate Maria with her UUUUUU, anime version made me hate her so bad before I have any chance to like her, I guess. BTW, just wanna say Mion's HOTNESS is OVER 9000!!! @ Didgri
Uh… I think I just found why I thought Battler was ridiculous: Its because I watched him as a viewer knowing that his logic is gonna be bullshit in a mystery show where logic of “turning table” doesnt apply to the killer. That being said, if you look at him as a character inside the show, he was not actually that bad…Well at least better than Kamina I guess. Still cannot appreciate Maria with her UUUUUU, anime version made me hate her so bad before I have any chance to like her, I guess. BTW, just wanna say Mion’s HOTNESS is OVER 9000!!!

]]> By: Irie http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25166 Irie Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:06:23 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25166 Is it only me or do all these deaths seem too neat? It's almost as if chess board pieces are being moved and the bodies staged for theaterical effect. Could the adults be acting while testing the children under trauma. Is it only me or do all these deaths seem too neat? It’s almost as if chess board pieces are being moved and the bodies staged for theaterical effect. Could the adults be acting while testing the children under trauma.

]]> By: Digdri http://tenka.seiha.org/2009/07/when-the-seagulls-cry-03-funny-face/comment-page-1/#comment-25159 Digdri Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:13:15 +0000 http://blog.seiha.org/?p=4191#comment-25159 Be careful with jugding characters in this type of series... Mion in Higurashi was a demon-possesed maniac or wasn't she? ;P Perhaps in the end you'll like Maria and hate her mother... might really happen :) In the games Maria is definitely one of the more interessing characters (because she seems really contradictorily and mysterious) In another note: Battler isn't like Kamina at all.... he likes to do that flashy finger-pointing like in the OP (perhaps because he likes mystery novels etc. and saw it there... just my guess), but he is more a thinker and hobby detective.... that wasn't Kaminas strong point. Cutting ecchi-scenes short to chasing the melonpans you also don't get to see that he isn't quite THAT pervert in the games. In the end he actually more of softy. XD You can thing of him as a grown up version of K1. Strong determination but sometimes a little silly when like to tease others. And if you don't like him in the end: Enjoy how there is so much mental torture waiting for him... the game hasn't right begun yet... :) Be careful with jugding characters in this type of series… Mion in Higurashi was a demon-possesed maniac or wasn’t she? ;P

Perhaps in the end you’ll like Maria and hate her mother… might really happen :)
In the games Maria is definitely one of the more interessing characters (because she seems really contradictorily and mysterious)

In another note: Battler isn’t like Kamina at all…. he likes to do that flashy finger-pointing like in the OP (perhaps because he likes mystery novels etc. and saw it there… just my guess), but he is more a thinker and hobby detective…. that wasn’t Kaminas strong point.
Cutting ecchi-scenes short to chasing the melonpans you also don’t get to see that he isn’t quite THAT pervert in the games. In the end he actually more of softy. XD
You can thing of him as a grown up version of K1. Strong determination but sometimes a little silly when like to tease others.
And if you don’t like him in the end: Enjoy how there is so much mental torture waiting for him… the game hasn’t right begun yet… :)

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